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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Meeting 2020-07-23 · wg-governance · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/index.html">wg-governance</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html">Meeting 2020-07-23</a></h3>

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<a name="204817757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204817757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204817757">(Jul 23 2020 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I believe I will only be able to attend the first half of today's meeting.</p>



<a name="204824134"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824134" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824134">(Jul 23 2020 at 16:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<a name="204824143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824143">(Jul 23 2020 at 16:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>It's time for the <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="2317">@WG-governance</span>  meeting! React/Reply with <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> to indicate your attendance. You can find the agenda for today on the <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/projects/5">GitHub project board</a>. I've also listed the active issues below.</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/49">Organisation Taxonomy</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="204824603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824603">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Seems like we have pretty light attendance today.</p>



<a name="204824670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824670">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>indeed.</p>



<a name="204824723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824723">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm unsure how to proceed as I know <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> said they were working on alternative proposal of the org taxonomy based on activity so I'd prefer to hold off on discussing that.</p>



<a name="204824806"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824806" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824806">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>(wave)</p>



<a name="204824832"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824832" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824832">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>It looks like the project board doesn't explain why items are blocked; Nell, would you mind reminding me why the access policy documentation is blocked?</p>



<a name="204824833"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824833" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824833">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry, I'm running 1 more min late</p>



<a name="204824933"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824933" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824933">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>( <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120076">@BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand)</span> I believe <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="121055">@Pietro Albini</span> said we should off merging it, there was a reason that couldn't be cited publicly as I recall)</p>



<a name="204824949"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204824949" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204824949">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, okay; thanks!</p>



<a name="204825045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825045">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I'm here, sorry</p>



<a name="204825130"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825130" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825130">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, so, I can talk a bit about org taxonomy</p>



<a name="204825141"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825141" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825141">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>if we want :)</p>



<a name="204825174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825174">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I have a somewhat separate topic to throw out there for.. consideration :)</p>



<a name="204825295"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825295" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825295">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is that a group of us from core team have been working a bit on the rustconf keynote and there are some parts of it that want to talk about the achievements of governance wg and a bit about "where we're going", and I wanted to discuss it a bit, though maybe not live</p>



<a name="204825308"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825308" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825308">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that is, I could put some notes in another topic and see what people think)</p>



<a name="204825376"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825376" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825376">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but I'd also be happy to discuss it now)</p>



<a name="204825389"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825389" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825389">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Rustconf is soon correct?</p>



<a name="204825394"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825394" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825394">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>rustconf is aug 20</p>



<a name="204825407"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825407" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825407">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>but the talk has to be ready much sooner :)</p>



<a name="204825425"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825425" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825425">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> where is the project board</p>



<a name="204825436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825436">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/projects/5">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/projects/5</a></p>



<a name="204825504"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825504" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825504">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I think we should talk about rustconf thing it seems like it's most time sensitive since at most we'd only have one more meeting to discuss it.</p>



<a name="204825517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825517">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>one challenge is that the talk, like most talks, is still under heavy revision and I'm not 100% sure what I'm "asking for", but I guess I'd be interested in what we see as the "achievements" of the group</p>



<a name="204825570"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825570" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825570">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>and maybe our overall trend</p>



<a name="204825605"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825605" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825605">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Iirc that was nicely summed up in the last meeting</p>



<a name="204825609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825609">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>looking for the list</p>



<a name="204825610"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825610" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825610">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I was going to say</p>



<a name="204825622"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825622" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825622">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that hackmd we made last time is perhaps all I really even need</p>



<a name="204825630"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825630" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825630">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(deleted)</p>



<a name="204825668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825668">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>The team repository is much more up to date, and includes a lot more groups.</li>
<li>Many repositories are using the team repository for their access rights.</li>
<li>
<p>Many of the teams' membership is now synced automatically with GitHub through the team repository.<br>
Alumni are now separate recognised at the team level.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Landed the Project Group RFC.</p>
</li>
<li>Have a nearly complete access policy RFC.</li>
</ul>



<a name="204825675"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825675" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825675">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/blob/master/minutes/2020.07.09.md">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/blob/master/minutes/2020.07.09.md</a></p>



<a name="204825699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825699">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that's actually perfect</p>



<a name="204825831"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825831" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825831">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>There was another one I thought about, which feels half governance and half release, which is the overhaul of forge as a kind of central team wiki.</p>



<a name="204825848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825848">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>For "direction", I think it's pretty centered on the org taxonomy discussion; lots of other things tie into that. "What are the Rust project's core units of organization, and how do they relate to each other" is a fundamental question we're trying to answer</p>



<a name="204825862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825862">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah. I'm actually somewhat interested in revising our charter</p>



<a name="204825873"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825873" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825873">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>to try and make it narrower and more precise</p>



<a name="204825888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204825888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204825888">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also, I think what's on the website was never updated when we did the kind of "gov wg revamp"</p>



<a name="204826005"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826005" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826005">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>What do you mean by "what's on the website"? I think there's only the team data, or do you mean a blog post?</p>



<a name="204826021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826021">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/blob/master/CHARTER.md">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/blob/master/CHARTER.md</a></p>



<a name="204826056"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826056" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826056">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh on the repo not the rust-lang website, got it <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="204826120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826120">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I think I agree with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120076">@BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand)</span> that the "org taxonomy" is kind of at the herat, that basically our goal is to "define the structure of the rust org", starting by <em>documenting</em> what's there, but also suggesting changes to help correct problems</p>



<a name="204826214"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826214" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826214">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>the one thing I think that has been really challenging for us is how best to interact with other teams, I feel like we should look into doing more "direct outreach", sort of going in and helping to document team procedures by talking to the teams and trying to flesh out what they are</p>



<a name="204826229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826229">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see this as "the sort of work that a lot of team members don't have much interest in"</p>



<a name="204826238"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826238" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826238">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the idea of <em>this</em> team then is to collect people who <em>are</em> interested in it</p>



<a name="204826270"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826270" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826270">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, the surveys were sort of a start at that, but meeting with folks seems more likely to succeed, if it is clear what info is needed from the teams</p>



<a name="204826280"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826280" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826280">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I've felt this tension always of like "is that work that ought to be done by the teams themselves?"</p>



<a name="204826283"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826283" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826283">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think referring to the old "governance" RFC is probably appropriate - we're not necessarily overhauling it, but some of the things we're changing haven't really been evaluated since that RFC</p>



<a name="204826316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826316">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>side note that I think the "out of scope" section has language that is kind of...<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/blob/master/CHARTER.md#out-of-scope">unnecessarily hostile</a></p>



<a name="204826358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826358">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I actually had proposed a revision based on the HackMD, but then withdrew it was it was not quite right, and we were discussing that language there</p>



<a name="204826384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826384">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204826280">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but I've felt this tension always of like "is that work that ought to be done by the teams themselves?"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>in pareticular I feel like as part of compiler/lang team I've been pushing stuff</p>



<a name="204826405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826405">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>This one: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/blob/master/text/1068-rust-governance.md">https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/blob/master/text/1068-rust-governance.md</a></p>



<a name="204826433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826433">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>but really I'd (a) probably like more help with that because I feel like it's hard work to get everything organized and (b) it feels somehow disconnected from gov wg which seems wrong?</p>



<a name="204826440"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826440" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826440">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe it's a question of simply having the structures and processes ( like the project team lifecycle, like the taxonomy) that make it possible for teams to do it themselves without it beign a headache</p>



<a name="204826447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826447">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, if that's not our role :) then what is!</p>



<a name="204826455"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826455" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826455">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>and for teams to stay aligned, and it to be clear what the org is doing</p>



<a name="204826458"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826458" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826458">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, there's kind of one goal which is defining the structure as has been said and there's two tasks that need to be completed. Defining the the structure we want to have, and transitioning the existing processes.</p>



<a name="204826477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826477">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I've prob said this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself. I've been running a bit ragged last few weeks and can't remember what was said and what was not.</p>



<a name="204826491"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826491" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826491">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>and change management does involve engaging with teams</p>



<a name="204826496"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826496" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826496">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>its ok</p>



<a name="204826539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826539">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>all that said, I have thoughts about org taxonomy that I'm pretty sure are fresh, since some of them were born from discussion with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116014">@ag_dubs</span> a few days back =) so we can turn to that at some point.. but maybe this current topic is fruitful too</p>



<a name="204826601"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826601" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826601">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>if you want to share thoughts you have right now, it is a good time to capture that</p>



<a name="204826607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826607">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>perhaps it and this will dovetail together</p>



<a name="204826614"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826614" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826614">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sorry for being quiet - turns out if you are focused on the "mentions" section of Zulip rather than the actual topic, you won't see the messages flowing</p>



<a name="204826714"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826714" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826714">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I just want to check do you feel that the Rustconf stuff was appropriately addressed?</p>



<a name="204826798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826798">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so --</p>



<a name="204826829"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826829" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826829">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, just wanted to make sure we didn't get off track.</p>



<a name="204826857"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826857" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826857">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically I would summarize something like</p>
<ul>
<li>gov wg has been working on defining core concepts</li>
<li>overall goal is to codify our governance structures and rethink some of them to try and address growing pains</li>
</ul>



<a name="204826897"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826897" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826897">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's going to be a bit of a "call to action!" so one of the things will be encouraging folks to get involved</p>



<a name="204826909"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826909" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826909">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I guess that stuff I was saying about</p>



<a name="204826922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826922">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Happy to echo the calls to action as I host RustConf :)</p>



<a name="204826929"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826929" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826929">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>"if you're the sort of person who likes thinking about org structure..." is also relevant</p>



<a name="204826945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204826945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204826945">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it seemed like nobody disagreed with that</p>



<a name="204827057"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827057" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827057">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>we need to be clear about what folks should be doing before we call to them perhaps? Helping to win folks over and roll out new structures from within teams?</p>



<a name="204827095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827095">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, but</p>



<a name="204827123"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827123" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827123">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>well (a) we have some time and (b) this is more a general thing, and I think we would want to follow up with specific intorust blog posts and the like</p>



<a name="204827148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827148">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>which isn't to say we shouldn't discuss (and that's why I was bringing this up)</p>



<a name="204827158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827158">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I don't think it's blocking the keynote work over new few days or anything</p>



<a name="204827300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827300">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, I thought you already have what you need for the keynote and were moving on to discussing other activities like revising the charter, working on the taxonomy?</p>



<a name="204827318"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827318" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827318">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="204827324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827324">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>so org taxonomy</p>



<a name="204827361"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827361" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827361">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204826214">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>the one thing I think that has been really challenging for us is how best to interact with other teams, I feel like we should look into doing more "direct outreach", sort of going in and helping to document team procedures by talking to the teams and trying to flesh out what they are</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think some of the problem we might run into this is teams being not really sure of what kind of procedures they would want.</p>



<a name="204827442"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827442" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827442">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had an interesting conversation with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116014">@ag_dubs</span> and I wanted to kind of discuss some of what we were saying and float those ideas here; as a side note, she's been interested in helping to get involved in this discussion, possibly as a regular participant in this group if she can find the time, or maybe "indirectly" if not</p>



<a name="204827453"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827453" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827453">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="219696">XAMPPRocky</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204827361">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think some of the problem we might run into this is teams being not really sure of what kind of procedures they would want.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="204827463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827463">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, as a specific example</p>



<a name="204827470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827470">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I recently had to draw up a procedure for the compiler team</p>



<a name="204827477"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827477" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827477">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>that was like "what do you do to add a new compiler option"</p>



<a name="204827485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827485">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>honestly, I'm not sure if what I wrote makes sense :)</p>



<a name="204827493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827493">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's "ok"</p>



<a name="204827512"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827512" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827512">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's an example of a kind of policy that I think does need to be writtten out --</p>



<a name="204827515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827515">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(ah yes, this came up last time, adding a new "x" in various circumstances)</p>



<a name="204827551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827551">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>-- and where I think compiler team members have opinions and constraints but aren't that psyched to write it out</p>



<a name="204827626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827626">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>but you could imagine like this group talking to some folks, drawing up a proposal, seeking feedback, iterating a bit</p>



<a name="204827631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827631">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then posting it</p>



<a name="204827654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827654">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Codifying-but-not-dictating seems like the right approach.</p>



<a name="204827660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827660">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and hopefully then also harmonizing between groups, like maybe clippy or something needs a similar process)</p>



<a name="204827671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827671">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's what seems most helpful but least intrusive/top-down.</p>



<a name="204827683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827683">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>right, I think we've been afraid of dictating,</p>



<a name="204827693"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827693" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827693">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we didn't quite have a model for how to actually <em>help</em> except that people come to us</p>



<a name="204827699"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827699" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827699">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or something)</p>



<a name="204827732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827732">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> Thinking on this a bit more maybe the starting point should be helping teams to define a charter? Because there are some teams where what should be policy is pretty unclear at the moment.</p>



<a name="204827763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827763">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that makes a lot of sense to me</p>



<a name="204827774"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827774" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827774">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>like the starting point is probably</p>



<a name="204827775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827775">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, when we were talking about the taxonomy it was mostly about kinds of groups, what you're describing sounds like kinds of activities</p>



<a name="204827825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827825">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>define a <em>charter</em> and <em>what are the subgroups that exist</em></p>



<a name="204827842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827842">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and what do they do)</p>



<a name="204827857"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827857" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827857">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>(which of course brings us a bit back to taxonomy)</p>



<a name="204827908"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827908" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827908">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could see us actually trying to systematically go team-by-team and work out a charter</p>



<a name="204827911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827911">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think we have those charters anywhere, right?</p>



<a name="204827924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827924">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, maybe when team was created the RFC had some material</p>



<a name="204827932"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827932" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827932">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>but some teams (e.g., community) don't have any  RFC</p>



<a name="204827944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827944">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I was surprised to see that, I'd forgotten...)</p>



<a name="204827950"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827950" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827950">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I went looking for this the other day)</p>



<a name="204827975"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827975" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827975">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>not that we need another "to do" item just yet ;)</p>



<a name="204827987"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204827987" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204827987">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>And we could see what is consistent among the teams</p>



<a name="204828008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828008">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(best to keep track, I'm noting it) and yes yes!</p>



<a name="204828080"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828080" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828080">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>so let me talk a bit about taxonomy because it seems relevant-ish</p>



<a name="204828106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828106">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>(unless anyone has pending comments to finish typing out)</p>



<a name="204828206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828206">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>so earlier I had this idea that we should categorize groups by their "duration", so to speak:</p>
<ul>
<li>teams: things that exist  in perpetuity, such as maintainance or triage</li>
<li>project groups: pursuing some fixed task, like developing a feature, that comes to an end</li>
</ul>



<a name="204828345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828345">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>then in discussion with the compiler team, we talked a bit about categorizing by "activity level" and "how to get involved":</p>
<ul>
<li>notification group -- no agenda or coordination, but you can sign up and get pinged</li>
<li>project group -- specific goals and meetings towards that goal .. or something</li>
<li>team -- long-running structure</li>
</ul>



<a name="204828359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828359">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(we never got super precise about what activity level <em>means</em>, as you can see)</p>



<a name="204828402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828402">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems reasonable</p>



<a name="204828408"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828408" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828408">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>but what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116014">@ag_dubs</span> was looking at was sort of combining both of those, in some sense. Looking I guess first at <em>what activities to do we have to perform</em></p>



<a name="204828426"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828426" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828426">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(it might be that a given team does many of these)</p>



<a name="204828454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828454">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't have her list off hand but it was something like</p>



<a name="204828546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828546">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>designing new things (language features, maybe website, etc)</li>
<li>maintaining existing things</li>
<li>project management</li>
<li>coordination -- i.e., somebody has a request, you route it to someone who can answer it</li>
<li>... I forget this one</li>
</ul>



<a name="204828557"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828557" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828557">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>(there were 5, I remember that)</p>



<a name="204828620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828620">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>(one sec, trying to remember:)</p>



<a name="204828670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828670">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess then the idea was that, separately, we have some different structures</p>



<a name="204828726"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828726" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828726">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>which are largely characterized by "how many people and how it functions" ( kind of like activity level )</p>



<a name="204828853"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828853" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828853">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>"activity level" sounds like an important component of membership expectations, which I think is appropriate for a group's charter. I am not sure it belongs in the top-level Rust project taxonomy, though.</p>



<a name="204828859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828859">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>we weren't sure the best names for these, but let me toss out some</p>
<ul>
<li>"point person" -- a small number of defined individuals, maybe 2 or 3, not looking for volunteers or anything</li>
<li>"project" -- like a working group, membership is largely based on volunteers and who is putting in time, doesn't decide on RFCs</li>
<li>"team" -- a full structured team</li>
</ul>



<a name="204828880"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828880" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828880">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway we can discuss the exact details there but</p>



<a name="204828904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828904">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>is "point person" a per-group thing? I.e. each group would have its own point person(s)?</p>



<a name="204828907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828907">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>the key insight that I thought was interesting was to say that not all tasks need to be a team, or a group</p>



<a name="204828922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828922">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>in some cases, a point person is enough</p>



<a name="204828963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828963">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>or even <em>better</em></p>



<a name="204828993"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204828993" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204828993">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah, so every task would have _at least_ a point person (i.e. someone who's "responsible" for the task), but possibly more?</p>



<a name="204829011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829011">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>and what is the right thing for a task depends on</p>
<ul>
<li>the nature of that task -- is it design? coordination?</li>
<li>how frequently it occurs -- is it something that arises every once in a while, or all the time?</li>
</ul>



<a name="204829058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829058">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I think one example would be that like, one of the roles of the community team is "redirecting mails that arrive at <code>community@rust-lang.org</code>"</p>



<a name="204829076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829076">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is a clear <em>coordination</em> task, and it probably just wants a small  set of fixed people</p>



<a name="204829095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829095">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>in part because you want to be able to execute on a given e-mail without any need for "consensus" amongst a larger group</p>



<a name="204829120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829120">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you kind of just want people who are experienced and know what to do (though it's interesting to think about how to train and replace)</p>



<a name="204829141"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829141" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829141">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that's also an activity)</p>



<a name="204829149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829149">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(yes)</p>



<a name="204829195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829195">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as is "retire or archive outdated stuff . . . anyhow)</p>



<a name="204829212"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829212" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829212">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>this realtes to something I've been thinking about for the compiler team</p>



<a name="204829251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829251">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is that I've been thinking about trying to define what I called <em>officers</em> (but maybe that terminology is a bit too .. martial? anyway) around specific roles</p>



<a name="204829338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829338">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the idea was that they would be elected or nominated or chosen somehow to serve fixed terms -- so e.g., there might be a "prioritization lead" etc, anyway, a lot of these roles are kind of "point people"</p>



<a name="204829355"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829355" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829355">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, ashley also had an interesting chart</p>



<a name="204829363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829363">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>it looked sort of like this</p>



<a name="204829451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829451">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<table>
<thead>
<tr>
<th>role</th>
<th>rarely</th>
<th>monthly</th>
<th>daily</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>design</td>
<td>point person</td>
<td>...</td>
<td>..</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>



<a name="204829485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829485">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>stupid markdown</p>



<a name="204829506"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829506" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829506">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>we get the idea (:</p>



<a name="204829526"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829526" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829526">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I forget the details, but the key idea was that sometimes we might have "too big" of a structure for a given task</p>



<a name="204829542"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829542" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829542">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>how often it happens, who does it</p>



<a name="204829551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829551">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., maybe we created a team, but all we needed was a point person, or a project group, or whatever</p>



<a name="204829599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829599">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that thus this could be part of the assessment we're trying to make, "how much structure do we really need for this task"?</p>



<a name="204829630"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829630" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829630">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>and similarly, I think then the question of "how do I create a new team" would be something like</p>



<a name="204829638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829638">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>define the task you need to do</li>
</ul>



<a name="204829696"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829696" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829696">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>well absically it'd be that you build it up, and that we recognize teams more "once they exist"</p>



<a name="204829720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829720">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>this comes back to the "organize by activity", I guess</p>



<a name="204829794"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829794" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829794">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, the trick is how to add enough structure that coordination is possible</p>



<a name="204829812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829812">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>and keeping track of what is going on is possible</p>



<a name="204829831"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829831" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829831">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I'm not as sure about that part, that was us noodling some at the end, but it's connected to this idea of like "when do you get promoted to position X?" and the answer is "when you're already doing it" (but you do have to define the criteria up front so people know what they're aiming at)</p>



<a name="204829836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829836">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>but without creating things that just fossilize</p>



<a name="204829844"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829844" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829844">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204829076">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>this is a clear <em>coordination</em> task, and it probably just wants a small  set of fixed people</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would have some worry on attracting people to fill these positions if we compartmentalise too much. It will be easy to fill a design role, less so for being the person who redirects email. I think there will still be need to have shared team responsibilities for work that doesn't want to get done.</p>



<a name="204829874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829874">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that makes sense</p>



<a name="204829891"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829891" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829891">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I will say that a huge challenge has always been</p>



<a name="204829920"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829920" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829920">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>you want to "call out for volunteers" but it's also sometimes tricky to control who shows up :)</p>



<a name="204829945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829945">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think part of this problem arises because we are maybe defining "leads" too early on</p>



<a name="204829966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204829966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204829966">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it's particularly hard when you're giving power or authority</p>



<a name="204830026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830026">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess that's somewhat different than what you said <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span></p>



<a name="204830143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830143">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, though it's part of the same problem of "getting the right people."</p>



<a name="204830301"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830301" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830301">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>The thing is, how do teams really come to be? If not with an RFC . . . Or should it always be with an RFC? Sounded like you favored something more informal to start with that then gets officialized and fits into the taxonomy categories discussed?</p>



<a name="204830396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830396">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it is through an RFC, but the key question is more "when do you write the RFC"</p>



<a name="204830418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830418">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>as a "related example", consider the Arm Tier 1 RFC</p>



<a name="204830462"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830462" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830462">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is proposing to add ARM as a Tier 1 target platform</p>



<a name="204830478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830478">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically that is the <em>culmination</em> of a lot of work</p>



<a name="204830489"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830489" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830489">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is kind of interesting, it relates also to the work on staging that I think we've still not quite <em>figured out</em></p>



<a name="204830514"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830514" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830514">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., then the question is "how do we decide when to start down the road"</p>



<a name="204830551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830551">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., for language features, how do we decide "we are going to try and design X"</p>



<a name="204830569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830569">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I think we can figure out to some extent the question of how to create new groups a bit later, maybe</p>



<a name="204830587"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830587" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830587">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another example would be the web presence team, which was first made to see if there was any interest and it seems to be going along now and the question I've thought about is when do we have to have RFC for the team?</p>



<a name="204830606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830606">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, I'm interested in the idea of <em>describing</em> and analyzing <em>what we have</em>, and I <em>suspect</em> that will help answer the question of how to start new things?</p>



<a name="204830661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830661">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="219696">XAMPPRocky</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204830587">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Another example would be the web presence team, which was first made to see if there was any interest and it seems to be going along now and the question I've thought about is when do we have to have RFC for the team?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, a very good question</p>



<a name="204830685"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830685" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830685">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>it sounds like there's two kinds of work, development tasks and admin tasks, with teams that mostly do one or the other. Is this correct?</p>



<a name="204830702"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830702" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830702">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I do think RFCs are appropriate but I am torn on it, I don't know when the right time is, and what steps come <em>before</em> the RFC</p>



<a name="204830725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830725">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="249394">Val Grimm</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23/near/204830685">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it sounds like there's two kinds of work, development tasks and admin tasks, with teams that mostly do one or the other. Is this correct?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>so, I don't really think that's true</p>



<a name="204830750"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830750" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830750">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it depends on what you mean by "admin"</p>



<a name="204830771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830771">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>in a nontechnical sense</p>



<a name="204830797"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830797" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830797">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there's a lot of "metawork" required to make a team function, at least at a certain scale</p>



<a name="204830809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830809">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually the statement might be true</p>



<a name="204830827"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830827" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830827">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>it may just be that the teams I'm most involved in are exceptions</p>



<a name="204830850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830850">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, there's website, events, community</p>



<a name="204830851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830851">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>(compiler, language design)</p>



<a name="204830854"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830854" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830854">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay time check; We have less than 5 minutes <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="204830862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830862">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>those seem to be admin.</p>



<a name="204830867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830867">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>woah</p>



<a name="204830926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204830926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204830926">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I didn't notice the time ;)</p>



<a name="204831038"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831038" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831038">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, in terms of action items do we want to reach out to leads about helping to make a charter for their team?</p>



<a name="204831072"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831072" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831072">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>sure</p>



<a name="204831117"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831117" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831117">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, we need to define what should be in a charter to guide them, or is that already known?</p>



<a name="204831148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831148">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a good point</p>



<a name="204831154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831154">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>we have our example but even that needs to be adjusted</p>



<a name="204831168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831168">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should not overly parallelize</p>



<a name="204831175"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831175" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831175">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>sounds like we need to break down the agenda a bit for next time. The themes I am hearing are 1) describe the work teams do and 2) the distinction between non-team tasks and team tasks as well as 3) how are teams created and all of this feeding implicitly into 4) what kind of teams should there be</p>



<a name="204831181"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831181" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831181">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm, yeah.</p>



<a name="204831187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831187">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should start with one or two teams</p>



<a name="204831243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831243">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>and all of these feed into 5) what should go into a charter</p>



<a name="204831260"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831260" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831260">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>and 6) when should you change the charter</p>



<a name="204831289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831289">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, so: "describe the work teams do"</p>



<a name="204831305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831305">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe that's a nicer way to frame things than "charter", at least to start</p>



<a name="204831308"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831308" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831308">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is nontrivial : D</p>



<a name="204831319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831319">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>but yes</p>



<a name="204831392"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831392" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831392">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are a lot of nested concepts here and lifecycles, so breaking things down more into what do we need to describe would be helpful, right now we are trying to eat an elephant</p>



<a name="204831397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831397">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>remind me, we meet every 2 weeks? :)</p>



<a name="204831398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831398">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>To nominate one team to reach out to, I've been talking with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204346">@Ashley Mannix</span> who has already been doing some of this work for the libs team.</p>



<a name="204831427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831427">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a nice example <em>because</em></p>



<a name="204831432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831432">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>the roles there have been changing a bit</p>



<a name="204831459"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831459" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831459">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>ooh, exemplar</p>



<a name="204831469"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831469" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831469">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., the compiler team has been taking on maintaince (I just cannot spell that word)</p>



<a name="204831488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831488">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maintenance)</p>



<a name="204831493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831493">(Jul 23 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>maintainance ? maintainence ?</p>



<a name="204831514"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831514" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831514">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>maintenance, ok, we'll see if I remember it :)</p>



<a name="204831581"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831581" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831581">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>so that team has been taking on maintenance</p>



<a name="204831618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831618">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay everyone that concludes our time for the meeting! Have a safe rest of the week!</p>



<a name="204831620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831620">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok so let's start maybe with compiler + libs ?</p>



<a name="204831642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831642">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can take a first stab at compiler and then share it around</p>



<a name="204831659"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-07-23/near/204831659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-07-23.html#204831659">(Jul 23 2020 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, see you next time</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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